He was at the most 21 and you will maybe younger than just when his child Joanna was given birth to. She may well was the fresh oldest of all students the guy fathered by the their certain mistresses.
John grew up in December 1167
1187 June - John inside the France whenever Chateauroux had been besieged 1187 June 23 - truce 1188 The month of january. 30 - Henry yields so you can England, perhaps with John within the pull 1188 Summer - Henry delivers John back to , crosses out-of 1189 Summer a dozen - John during the Le Mans when disarmed because of the Henry's acquisition, then John escaped otherwise was added away to own cover 1189 July 6 - Henry I dies in France 1189 Aug. several - Richard provides John back again to England with him 1189 Aug. 30 - John partnered to Isabelle away from Gloucester on Marlebridge 1189 September. step three - Richard crowned in the Westminster Abbey 1189 October. - Richard delivers John to your Wales so you're able to subdue this new edgy Welsh 1190 Feb. - John summoned to and you can pushed into the oath to not ever lay base with the England for three ages 1190 Summer - Richard goes on crusade [John holidays their oath] For our intentions, it is believed that the first several months, and the most more than likely going back to Joanna to possess become created, is the 1187-nine months. 1187 - John spends around the year in France 1188 - John have gone back to England inside January, but by summer is sent returning to France, where he seems to have remained 1189 - John seems to be in France January - August, returning so you can England for the August when preparing to have his matrimony with the 31 Aug. If the John produced no more unrecorded output to help you England, it seems that he spent in the 80% of their go out from January 1187 up to their marriage, in France . He had been will eventually considering the State of Mortain, inside the (in advance of Richard's coronation).
The above information, given the period and proven fact that Joanna try delivered so you can The united kingdomt off France when you look at the 1203 for their own relationship so you can Llywelyn, gives credence to the proven fact that Joanna along with her mom were away from French/Norman origin.
Provided and John's better-known philandering during this time, truth be told there appears to be of numerous individuals into the role out-of mother away from Joanna!
My personal earlier in the day blog post provided everything you to Paget revealed that it is Clemence de- Dauntsey, whom married Nicholas de Verdun. I thought that it was new Nicholas and you can Clementia to which Henry 111 supplied the newest infant custody away from Susanna (since the a hostage) inside the 1228. Immediately after another a lot of et knockout -innlegg time look however, I could pick no trace out-of an excellent Clemence de Dauntsey inside the new information. I did so see however, brand new thoughts of 1 genealogist which clearly stated it as…’ I do believe that individuals (new genealogists) established that there try no such as for example people due to the fact Clemence de- Dauntsey. You to definitely identification of your own partner from Nicholas de Verdun are good error because of the Paget!’
I’m happy to believe that conclusion, since after that study of your own suggestions of the next Clemence turned out a great deal more fruitful.
Normandy
Clemence ce Boteler came into this world on 1175 from inside the Steeple Lavington, Wiltshire. Their particular father is Philip le Boteler (born circa 1150).
Clemence ce Boteler partnered Nicholas de Verdun in the 1202 (their next partner immediately following their matrimony in order to Joan Fitz Piers. Notice, this marriage isn’t demonstrated) within Alton, Staffordshire and they had one youngster, Rohese de- Verdun who was born when you look at the 1203 otherwise 1205 (died. Feb 1247).
In the event the, in fact, Joanna was the result of a liaison anywhere between John and you may Clemence ce Boteler (who was basically old to fourteen-fifteen at that time), it could were quite difficult into Le Boteler family to acquire an appropriate husband to own Clemence. In reality some 10 years ticket ahead of good ily?) having a trusting English nobleman and you can assets proprietor, Nicholas de- Verdun. Leaving aside for now the possibility that Nicholas had fell in love with the new twenty seven yr old Clemence and you will planned to get married their, it would were important for John to add Clemence with specific possessions off her very own to ensure she turned into a attractive award to own their husband to be.